...and your hair and your clothes.
I entered the market from the eastern end of Turnpin Lane at the weekend and as I turned the corner by Mr Humbug my eyes started to water. I was also struck my the overwhelming smell of burning fat.
This has become a feature of the market of late, ever since the glorious Wednesday food market opened. This week, however, the wind was coming from a direction that forced all the smoke and stench into the market hall. The actual cooking was taking place at the northern end of the market, the smokier stuff (pig and sausage cooking) located under the entrance portico, but the whole market stank.
I can well imagine how off-putting this was to visitors. For those intending to enter the market from College Approach there must have been little incentive to actually come in. One look at the Wednesday banner and the pall of smoke filling the portico would turn the most inquisitive tourist away, let alone anyone looking for an arts and crafts market.
For the traders, it must have been exceptionally miserable. I remember the occasional waft of bacon from the Meeting Place - even some vegetarians of my acquaintance found that appealing - but this is a wholly different thing. The smoke and stink was bad enough for everyone; I can only imagine how the vegetarian, Muslim and Jewish traders felt. I bet the management didn't waste a second trying to imagine that.
Roasting pork and frying sausages on an industrial scale inside Greenwich Market is such a risibly bad idea that I can't understand why the management hasn't changed its mind yet. Let me make it clear that I am not opposed to cooked food at the market - I support these traders - it's the location that's wrong.
There have been attempts at bringing cooked food to the market before (remember Anson's excellent barbecues?). They have, wisely, always been situated in the car park or nearby in Durnford Street. I think this must be because the more astute managers have realised that such enterprises must be open to the sky. Cooking generates fumes and smells and these have to be allowed to escape.
Let's have a hot food offering at the market - I think it could be good for everyone - but please locate it where common sense dictates.
Wednesday, July 09, 2008
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
30 comments:
I am a food trader and it seems obvious that whoever makes these decisions has decided that food increases footfall and is to be encouraged.
Take it from me, there will be further expansion of the food court
as the weekday traders such as the hog roast are being invited to appear on the weekend.
Following the enclosure of the roof, cooking smells are going to hang around a lot longer.Wasn't it a little bit short sighted to allow
frying and roasting just as you are decreasing ventilation?
Of course it was an annoyance for the traders on the sides to have to put up with the rain - it wasn't good for the customers either. With the present situation however, everyone will be affected either by cooking smells or the general airlessness.
Please, please open up the roof again, surely a slatted design would keep the weather out and let the fresh air flow through.
Thank you so much for that comment. To be honest, I've been rather worried that I may have alienated the food traders with my campaign against GSM's signage. I'm definitely not anti-food trader; I believe the food court is a valuable part of the market. It's just that, like everything else, its expansion is being bungled by a chaotic management.
The food court does increase footfall and I'm totally in favour of it. However, it's my view that the food traders who have been here for a while are being just as badly served as everyone else. The new hot food traders are faring no better, their introduction into the market hall leading to resentment levelled against them.
I believe it is in the interest af all traders (and shopkeepers, they're blighted too) to have a well managed market. Restoring the internal food court to its original size and locating the hot food to Durnford Street would be a start.
Whistler, in principle you are right: Durnford Court would be an excellent location for a hot food area but only if it was smartened up.
Look at it now, a rag tag and unsanitary area of parking, dustbins and storage. No wonder any food business has not survived there! A few have tried, all have died.
If you feel that this forum could tip the Hospital into placing some serious money and willpower into reshaping Durnford as a food court, let's keep the discussion going. As things stand no-one is going to want to move their business into this area.
I'm in total agreement with you both. With a little imagination it wouldn't take too much to spruce up Durnford Street. Screening the waste area shouldn't be a challenge. The toilets need sorting out anyway - how do you guys keep things hygienic now? Lose the car parking - everyone seems to cope just fine at Christmas when it's used for stalls anyway. I hope the Hospital's listening, cos GSM won't act.
Hang on there Whistler
Durnford Street? I don't think so.
People won't want to eat their food or have it prepared in that unsanitary Rat infested area that smells of Toilets, Garbage & Petrocarbons.Yum Yum!!
You'd never get it past the Health inspector.
Plus it's not worth the cleanup effort/cost involved to bring it up to scratch in the time left before relocation.
Well there's enough trade going on at Justin's wagon when he's there, it doesn't seem to put too many off so I don't think it would be too bad, besides the smell of the cooking sausages, crepes and pig would hide all the other smells put together... I should add that I am not anti food traders but think it unfair to have the smell wafting around the market area where traders are selling clothing or scented products
I agree. We need to look at the market as a whole. GSM seem to be focusing most of their efforts on the food area at the moment to the detriment of other traders. Whilst the food court expands on weekdays, other paying traders are being turned away. Also, I did not realise you could sell hot food without some kind of a licence but there's probably different rules when it comes to markets? Hot, smelly food stalls need their own dedicated area.
You do not need a licence to trade hot or cold food in any privately owned or run market.
You must however comply with food hygiene regulations and health and safety laws.
How on earth can you comply with food hygiene regulations in this place? I've seen people washing up their catering tools in the gents toilets!!! That's gross.
Got any pictures of the toilets, Whistler?
Anyone taking catering equipment into the toilets should be suspended! I'm not disputing what you have seen, all I know is that the vast majority of us food traders would never do such a thing. Good clean food businesses keep sanitation sprays, gels and wipes on the stall. If used properly they are miles more effective than detergent and hot water anyway.
If you see this happen again let one of the established traders know and we will have a word with the maverick.
Oh come on! we all know that the food traders use the market loo's for their water supply. I have seen the most disgusting things going on where the Food Hall is concerned, to try and pretend that you offer the highest standard of hygiene is an insult to our intelligence (as much as we love you all)
Sorry mate, not guilty, I bring my own water supply with me!
There should at least be a standpipe provided for food traders use, this would avoid having to take things into the toilets.
Yes I have seen myself how seriously some of the food traders take hygene, like cleaning the glass protection covers along the front of their stands with windolene, flash or whatever it is, and spraying it with such gay abandon the spray hits the glass and cascades over it onto the already laid out food. Inner cleanliness I'd say...
Lets try and keep a united front. I am concerned that GSM read these comments and laugh at us as we appear to be squabbling amongst ourselves, although we are only trying to deal with the problems with humour, shall we try and be more positive by making constructive and positive suggestions on how these situations can be approved by better management? It is GSM'S responsibility to provide adequate food hygiene facilities if they are choosing to manage a food hall.
Yes, let's be united. If the correct facilities were already in place, we wouldn't even be having these conversations. Let's apply pressure where it should be applied .. to GSM.
We need to try and work a bit smarter now, we have had our little moans and digs at each other and that has established that there are problems in the Market so big that they are beyond comprehension especially where Health and Safety are concerned. Now it is time to try to find a solution to this bad management situation and the only way we can do that is to know our rights as Traders and as customers. Is there anyone who could enlighten us all on our legal standing with regard to Food Hygiene because remember that although we are all running our own individual business we do not own the Food Hall we have a Landlord and that is GSM they have a responsibilty to ensure that any food sold on the premises has been prepared within certain Food Hygiene guidelines and that means providing the correct facilities and support for this to happen. I am also sure that now this is all coming to light in a very public way GSM are 'Turning a blind eye' an that could be very dangerous to them if something serious happened to a customer.
I am a non food trader but I think you guys do need to take some legal advice. At the end of the day, your livelihoods are at stake. It would be wise to be prepared. Don't ignore stuff and then it becomes too late. That is what GSM have done and now look what is happening.
The contact names and numbers for the Environmental Health Inspectors at Greenwich Council who deal with the market are:
Clare Harris-02089218062
Teresa Metcalf-02089218182.
They will be pleased to listen and advise anonymously if anyone would like advice on GSM'S obligations.
Hi, I am a fairly long-time food trader at the market. Thanks for your concern ('you need to take legal advice', above) but you can thankfully relax. Here are some facts:
1) Like all traders, every food trader has to have public liability insurance (I have cover of several million pounds).
2)Every food trader has to show the management a current Food Hygiene certificate, which has to be re-taken every three years.
3) All food traders are also regularly inspected without warning by the Environmental Health inspectors from Greenwich Borough. When they inspect, they always check all our certificates. They check the cleaning and sterilising sprays (yes, we all have them) to make sure they are food-safe. They check for hand-cleaning facilities such as sterilising gels. They check how the food is stored on the way to, and after arrival at the market.
They check how long the various types of food are displayed, and check that we have facilities to chill food that legally needs to be kept below 4 degrees Celsius. They use electonic thermometers to check hot cabinets, chillers, and chiller boxes.
They check our signage, allergy warnings etc, labelling, ingredients information and more.
After the inspection they fill in a report, detailing anything which needs to be changed or improved. They may give a time limit for changes to be made, and re-inspect to make sure that they have been acted upon.
If the hygiene is judged to be very good, they award the trader with a Hygiene Award Certificate. Some traders at the market have been given this Certificate a number of times.
4)If a trader's food products are prepared off-site, the house or premises where the food is made must also be inspected by the relevant Borough inspectors, and must pass many criteria before being given a pass certificate which has to be shown to the market management and also the Environmental Health inspectors from Greenwich.
Having worked alongside other food traders I want to say that most of us try our utmost to be careful about hygiene (after all, it is in our own interests to be seen to be clean) whatever the cynics amongst you might think or say. Also, I feel that most lapses I see are caused by lack of understanding rather than deliberate bad intent.
Those of you who find fault - have you looked at other food markets? I have, and Greenwich market has a higher standard than most others I have seen.
As you can see, we do not need to worry about our livelihoods if we follow the many guidelines and systems which are in place
If anyone (trader or public) sees anything that you are uncomfortable with, you could always ask the trader concerned about it. If the explanation offered does not satisfy you, you are always free to report your concerns to the Environmental Health Dept (see above for telephone numbers).
I can say this with confidence because I know that most traders have I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear.
I want to say that the inspectors who visit the food market know all about the lack of a dedicated water supply for the food traders, and have also been into the toilets (at their gruesome worst) to see them for themselves. It is because of this that the people trading in high-risk foods have to bring their own clean water supply (which takes a lot of effort, needless to say).
To the food court traders above - just to say, all traders are supposed to have public liability insurance. I personally do have this. That doesn't mean though, that every trader has. I would be very suprised if every food court trader has this insurance. I know for a fact that certainly there are many arts and crafts traders that don't have this cover. GSM, as far as I know, has no system in place to monitor this. I want to be as confident as you in all the issues you address, but I can't be, I am sorry to say.
For all their faults, GSM does have a system in place to check the food trader's insurance. I have been asked to physically show an up to date certificate several times.
So it doesn't matter if someone gets sick due to unhygienically prepared food just as long as your are insured for millions to cover it...well you obviously take the same selfish ruthless attitude as GSM
How can you jump in , after all the reasoned argument and detailed explanation on this blog and come up with a comment like this?
Public liability insurance is not used to hide from responsibilities, it's an added safeguard for the customer!
Steady on everyone. We are all supposed to be friends aren't we? My conclusion is that the food traders have a much better idea of what goes on in the food court over us non food traders. I trust the more established traders will just need to keep an eye on some of the newer food traders. And they will probably do a much better job of that than our glorious management company who I wouldn't trust with any job quite frankly!
I just want to add my own plea for moderation. I didn't start this topic for traders to kick each other. It is my contention that if there are shortcomings in the observance of hygiene regulations, it is down to GSM's failure to provide adequate facilities. I believe that if you're going to operate a food market, you have an obligation give traders the tools to do the job properly.
I've been using the Greenwich Market toilets for 7 years and have never seen any food traders washing anything except their hands! Are we operating in different realms here?
I've been reading this series of comments with increasing disbelief. The level of aggression and hostility in some of the postings signal clearly that some individuals are motivated by shadowy issues which have nothing to do with the matter under discussion. Whoever you are, it sounds as if you hate the very ground that the food traders walk on.
Only you can know what the real problem is. But all I can say is, what good is going to come from all this? Is it helping the perilous situation at Greenwich market to publicly air your obvious resentments and to make vague accusations damning all the food traders? In my experience, divisiveness is always destructive, not constructive. Surely the only point of this blog is to empower the traders for good, not to try to start a civil war.
Well said, we do not need to start ripping into each other. Perhaps the resentment towards the food traders comes from the misleading signs and the food area encroaching into what was the arts and crafts area? I don't know, but whatever it is, please lets stop it and concentrate on the issue in hand.
Post a Comment